3.5 Nissan Engine Noise – Tapping at Cold Start Up
September 5, 2009 10:34 am Auto Technician / Mechanic, Automotive Consumer, Service Writer 
Summary: In this article we point out a common problem with Nissan automobiles equipped with the 3.5 Liter engine that causes engine tapping noises typically on cold start up. The engine has variable timing cam sprockets, three timing chains, three tensioners and three guides. Vehicles subject to similar issues may include Nissan Altima, Maxima, Murano, 350Z, Infiniti G35, G37, EX, FX, M series and QX4.
Nissan has stated before that a slight tap on cold start up that lasts for only a second is normal and acceptable. The tapping noise the vehicle in this auto repair blog had lasted much longer than that. When the car was allowed to cool down prior to starting, a tapping noise was present as long as the car was kept at idle; when the idle was raised to 1500 RPM’s he tapping would fade away. The noise when listened to with a stethoscope seemed to be coming mainly from the right bank near the firewall. This vehicle had excessive movement in the main timing chain from wear in the chain and guides. The main timing chain tensioner is pushed out to tighten the chain by engine oil pressure. The higher the RPM’s the more oil pressure is supplied. It also ratchets out like a self adjuster (similar to an adjuster for drum brakes) to maintain adjustment as wear occurs. As the chain and guides wear over time it ratchets out further and further. Once there is so much wear that it cannot extend any more, only the oil pressure from the engine pushing the tensioner, can reduce some of the excessive chain movement. That’s why at higher RPM’s the rattling subsides. Also as the engine warms up, more oil is circulated and heat expansion can help to reduce the play somewhat. The simplest way to check for excessive timing chain wear is to remove the rear access cover that will reveal the main timing chain tensioner. If the adjustment seems to be fully extended out of it’s bore – most likely the timing chain and guides have excessive wear causing the problem.
Other Possible Causes
This is not to say that the only possible cause of a rattle upon cold start up is the main timing chain and guides. The most obvious cause of this condition would simply be low oil level. Not surprising, if there’s not enough oil circulating in the engine it will make noise! Also an engine that hasn’t had regular oil changes can become sludged and oil passages, including the one that leads to the timing chain tensioner can become restricted. Also Nissan has had some problems with variable timing sprockets making noise sometimes and some tensioners that weren’t up to par. It’s important to diagnose the particular problem at hand and not assume that this is definitely the cause, but checking for a loose main timing chain is one of the most logical places to start.
The Fix
The confirmed fix for the car in this article (2004 Maxima 101,000 miles) was the primary timing chain, guides and tensioner. The job normally calls for about 11 book hours which includes removing the exhaust, starter, AC compressor and upper oil pan. The repair was done without removing those components which saved a lot of time.
Please reference this auto repair article when quoting, linking to this page is welcomed and appreciated. If you are new to linking a page. 1. Left click the link; http://www.denlorstools.com/autoblog/2009/09/3-5-nissan-engine-noise-tapping-at-cold-start-up/ to highlight 2. Right click, select copy 3. Right click and paste to forum, blog web page etc. Thanks! Disclaimer: Auto repair information/tips are designed for informational purposes only, without warranty of any kind, in no event shall the author of this site be liable for any consequential, incidental or direct damages sustained in the course of using the information in this article.
Have questions for a Nissan tech? See our car questions page to find a Nissan trained expert now.
‘nissan g35′ on the web « lynnegirl :
Date: September 6, 2009 @ 12:15 pm
[...] http://www.denlorstools.com/autoblog/2009/09/3-5-nissan-engine-noise-tapping-at-cold-start-up/The engine has variable timing cam sprockets, three timing chains, three tensioners and three guides. Vehicles subject to similar issues may include Nissan Altima, Maxima, Murano, 350Z, Infiniti G35, G37, EX, FX, M and QX4. [...]
Thomas@Los Angeles Nissan :
Date: October 6, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
11 book hours sounds like an enormous amount of work! What happens if you just let it be I wonder?
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: October 6, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
Thomas, it would continue to gradually make more and more noise. If let go until it jumps timing – bent valves would probably be the result, requiring at least new timing chains AND rebuilt cylinder heads.
jose :
Date: November 13, 2009 @ 7:07 pm
My maxima keeps jumping time. I have changed the tensioner and guides. the chain doesnt seem to be stretched and it still jumps time. Can somebody help me?
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: November 14, 2009 @ 8:34 am
Jose, As long as the chains, tensioners and guides have been changed and the timing is set up properly when it is all installed; I don’t really see how it could jump very easily. The main tensioner does work from engine oil pressure, so if the oil pressure is low this could allow some slack in the chain.
jose :
Date: November 14, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Would I need a new oil pump if the oil pressure is low? What would cause the oil pressure to go down? Wouldnt the oil pressure light come on if it was low?
We have put the car together two times and it only starts at the first crank, then when we turn it off and crank it again it jumps time and it wont start.
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: November 14, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
I can imagine how frustrating it is to have a continuing problem like you’ve described. This is a huge job to re-do.
Oil pump pressure can be low due to a bad oil pump or excessive bearing wear. The oil light should come on if the pressure is low. The water pump is also driven by the chain – excessive movement or play can allow for the chain to possibly jump teeth.
You may want to use our ask a question page to ask a Nissan technician for his advice. Usually at any given time there are many technicians to choose to ask – I would look for someone with dealer experience with Nissans.
ryan :
Date: December 16, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
I am having this problem right now with my 04 maxima. Like you are saying off a cold start only. it only has 70k. Is it worth being proactive and fixing the guides and tensioner?? and is $1500 a fair price??
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: December 17, 2009 @ 7:52 am
Ryan, assuming the oil level is full and it is in good condition and the noise is still present, I would plan on getting the repair as soon as feasible. $1500 is probably about right – have a written estimate prepared giving you a detailed breakdown of the labor hours, shop rate, individual parts to be replaced and so forth. With this estimate in hand you can compare with other shops in your area to see if the price is in line or not. Ultimately choose the shop you trust, don’t base your decision solely on the lowest estimate.
DRII :
Date: April 21, 2010 @ 12:29 am
My 04 Maxima (88k miles) is doing the exact same thing. Rattling sound just on cold start up for like 6 seconds or so. I took it to a Nissan dealer – they did an engine flush and synthetic oil change and said everything looked good in the engine (base inspection). 2 days later the sound is back. How long can I wait, money is kinda tight at the moment. Can this likely tensioner problem seriously damage the engine?
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: April 21, 2010 @ 7:05 am
DRII, the timing chain noise is an indication of loose chains. While it’s making noise, there can be rapid wear during that initial 6 seconds. I wouldn’t really have anyway of guessing how long the repair can be postponed before the chain gets loose enough and jumps a sprocket; if that happens the car could stop running.
I’m surprised that the Nissan dealer did a flush and a synthetic oil change, unless they saw some evidence of sludge in the engine from lack of maintenance. If the engine is sludged, it may be best to consider replacing the engine with a good used one, otherwise the timing chain job should suffice. Just make sure the engine is clean inside (not sludged) before deciding to spend $1500 or so on a timing chain job. Also if getting a used motor replacement, have a valve cover removed to insure there’s no sludge build up prior to purchasing.
DRII :
Date: April 21, 2010 @ 11:09 pm
thanks Dennisb, I was the one that suggested the engine flush. The nissan tech said the engine looked very good – I usually spoil my cars. From what I hear a used VQ V6 engine with installation is about the same price as a timing chain repair. Should I just ride this particular engine as far as I can and then replace it. I heard of some people driving with bad tensioners for over 50,000 miles before the engine had to be worked on.
I still don’t understand why it happens only on cold starts. Makes no sense to me…
dennisb :
Date: April 22, 2010 @ 8:31 am
That’s a gamble I can’t really help with. As far as why it only makes noise on cold start up has to do with the hydraulic tensioners and the worn chains. The chains have the most slack in them when the hydraulic tensioners are bled down after sitting. When the engine is started and the oil pressure builds up (in a few seconds) the hydraulic tensioners fill with oil pressure that in turn holds the chains tight enough to reduce/eliminate the chatter. A definite flaw… usually with a “timing chain engine” there wouldn’t be any problem until there’s well over 100,000 miles.
Teeto :
Date: May 17, 2010 @ 3:06 am
Hey Dennisb, i have a 2004 nissan murano and im the first owner of the vehicle. it was making the same start up noise but then my tranny went on me.. i got the tranny rebuild for $2000 but the noise was still there..then i got the tensions and chains replace with a few other parts plus the oil pump but the starting noise is still there for about 3 seconds then it goes away.. i spent over $3000 already and i cant believe the noise still there, any help ? thanks for your time…
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: May 17, 2010 @ 6:15 am
Teeto, ouch. Obviously the transmission problem was totally unrelated. I would take it back to the shop that did the chains – they did replace the tensioners and guides hopefully. Other than that you may want to ask a Nissan dealer tech for more information about other causes on our car questions page linked at the top of the page.
reginald :
Date: June 15, 2010 @ 8:58 am
I have a 2000 Infiniti I30 it was low on oil, ran hot due to a busted radiator un beknown to me at the time and ran hot, now that oil and the radiator has been replaced I hear a continuous tapping noise on the right side of the engine. What could this possibly be?
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: June 15, 2010 @ 9:19 am
Reginald, anytime overheating occurs damage can be done. A technician with a mechanics stethoscope may be able to help pinpoint the problem area.
Bob :
Date: June 28, 2010 @ 9:11 pm
I have a 2003 3.5 with the ticking issue. Started about 85k and I’mat 112k now.
Something to note… I’ve noticed that sometimes mine wont tick at all. But 90%of the time it will tick LOUD for 15 to 30 seconds. I also have high rpm cutout and missfire. The dealer said mu problem was VTT valve? part 13025-AE21A. Quote was 1400.00.
I wonder if this is a good diagnosis.
Bryan Ellsaesser :
Date: July 28, 2010 @ 1:23 pm
I have a 2005 Altima SE, 3.5 L. This tensioner problem exactly describes my experience. Cold start idle noises which fade after a few minutes of running and immediately fade at higher rpms. I choose to ignore the problem (dumb) and now my Engine just got a lot noisier and a low oil pressure condition is present. I immediately stopped driving it and took it to a mechanic.
I’m hoping that the low oil pressure is due to a break down in the timing chain apparatus somewhere? Any likelihood of this? My mechanic wants to just replace the whole Engine but he hasn’t dropped the pan or taken off the valve cover to look at any bearings. I went to another shop for a 2nd opinion and they showed me a service bulletin to replace faulty/poor design tensioner components.
I’m stuck gambling with a tensioner repair job being the limit of my problems or with sinking money to fix this only to find that the engine needs replacement anyway.
Another thing I thought of. If I replace the engine, won’t the ‘new’ engine have the same defect and require the same tensioner work? Something to consider for those in this thread thinking of just replacing an engine.