Mazda RX8 Flooded, Hard Starting – TSB Procedures

March 22, 2009 3:47 pm dennisb - Auto Tool Sales DIY, How To Auto Repair

RX8 Flooding Problem

Flooded in the driveway is a real problem, not so unfamiliar to RX8 owners.

Mazda RX8 is a great sports car with a bad flooding problem (cold starting problems as well). The Rotary engine tends to be flooded very easily if the car is turned off before the engine fully reaches operating temperature. This happens typically when the car is started up and only moved a short distance. There was a recall to recalibrate the PCM, plus a revised leading spark plug number mentioned in this TSB, however the problem still persists in some cars that have had theses updates. Reduced starter life and damaged catalytic converters are a few of the casualties brought on by this car’s flooding problem.


Flooding the cylinders causes excessive fuel in the combustion chamber and ignition cannot occur if the fuel/air ratio is disproportionate. Also flooding can cause the trochoid chamber to become “washed.” This means the film of oil on the cylinder wall is washed away and this prevents it from maintaining compression. Lack of compression can be detected by the sound of the engine turning over far too easily and the tell tale higher pitch sound as it turns over. Even after spark plugs are removed, the chamber aired out and fresh plugs are installed…without compression the engine will simply NOT start.

Living with a Renisis Rotary Engine – Tips

  1. Warming the engine up prior to turning it off will help prevent a flooding condition.
  2. Check the engine’s oil often, since this design typically uses a lot of oil – don’t let it run low.
  3. Make sure the highest cranking amp battery is acquired – extra cranking power could make the difference.
  4. Synthetic oil is not recommended by Mazda for this design engine (more on this below).
  5. If taking the spark plugs out, notice that there are leading and trailing plugs – Mazda has marked the block “L” & “T.” Be sure not to cross the spark plug wires or the engine may never start!
  6. Never attempt to start the engine for one or two second durations (without it starting), if you try to start it and it doesn’t – keep in the crank position for about eight seconds. Continued attempts to try to start the engine with one to two second intervals is likely to further flood and aggravate the situation! 

Mazda Rotary Engine De-Choking Procedure 

  • Attempt to start the car up to three times.
  • Allow the engine to crank for a maximum of eight seconds.
  • Allow a minimum of three seconds between tries. The starter motor must be allowed some cool down time.
  • Depress and hold the accelerator pedal to the floor and crank the engine for 7-8 seconds. This will clear out unburned fuel from the combustion chamber.
  • Release the accelerator pedal and start the engine.
  • When the engine starts, don’t race the engine or suddenly take off. Keep it running and allow the smoke to subside.

Q: Why does my RX8 use so much oil between changes? Should I switch to synthetic?

A: Rotary engines are designed to use some oil, in fact they have an oil metering pump that injects oil into the engine to provide lubrication for the apex, side and corner seals of the combustion chambers. There’s no external lubrication for these seals as in the a conventional ring and piston engine. Similar to two stroke engines that inject oil instead of having oil pumped throughout the engine (remember there are no valves, lifters, etc). Old Rx7 engines injected oil into the carburetors, directly into the engine. And NO don’t use synthetic oil. The problem with synthetic oil is that it is not a petroleum based product and does not ‘burn’ well in the combustion chamber. This would result in excessive deposits on the rotors and rotor housings that could lead to engine failure.

Q: Should I use a battery charger on “jump” mode when trying to start my rotary?

 
A: Yes, to the battery charger but it’s a “no” to the jump mode. Be aware that continuing to crank the engine over repeatedly could really heat up the cable going to the starter. I would recommend using a low or medium setting on the charger and keep a fan on top of the engine blowing down toward the starter.

Q: I don’t think my engine is flooded, but it sounds like no compression. Can I add some oil somehow to increase compression enough to try to start it?


A: Yes, see the white paper pdf, courtesy of Mazda. Refer to Repair Procedure “B” for the steps recommended for adding oil to restore compression for starting.

Linking: Please reference this article when quoting, linking to this page is welcomed and appreciated. If you are new to linking a page. 1. Left click the link; http://www.denlorstools.com/autoblog/2009/03/mazda-rx8-flooded-hard-starting-tsb-procedures/ to highlight 2. Right click, select copy 3. Right click and paste to forum, blog web page etc. Thanks! Disclaimer: Repair tips are designed for informational purposes only, without warranty of any kind, in no event shall the author of this site be liable for any consequential, incidental or direct damages sustained in the course of using the information in this article.


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31 Responses

  1. LUIS :

    Date: September 9, 2009 @ 6:59 pm

    The battery on my 2004 RX8 died and I had it replaced now the car wont stay on. Every time I stop the car cuts off. Is there anything I can do to fix this problem?

  2. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: September 9, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

    Luis, Keep the car running by feathering the accelerator. If you let this model stall too many times you may have to deal with the flooding issue outlined in the repair article. Many vehicles lose their fuel strategy when the battery is changed, this is most likely what has happened since you say the battery was just replaced. After the motor has been ran awhile, the computer will relearn the best fuel/air mix and it will start to maintain idle as it should.

  3. LUIS :

    Date: September 9, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

    Thank you dennisb i will give it a try and see what happens.

  4. karen :

    Date: September 27, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

    My RX8 will run fine for a day or two then for no reason it justs cuts out and will not start. I’ve had it for six weeks and it’s been in the garage 7 times, they changed the starter motor and now say they can’t find anything wrong, so they say I’m riding the clutch and that cuts engine out. I know I’m not, has anyone got any idea?

  5. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: September 27, 2009 @ 8:36 pm

    Karen, driving this car short distances and at slow speeds is not good. The harder and longer it is driven the less chance of it having the hard start and flooding issue. Avoid running it short periods of time. One Mazda tech I spoke with gave this advice for an owner of an RX8, he said “You gotta drive it like you stole it”.

  6. Ty :

    Date: October 5, 2009 @ 11:39 am

    I have owned 5 rotary engines. This rx-8 that I now have has been the most tempermental of them all. The rx-7’s required the usual plugs and fuel filters..but otherwise were easier to care for. For the Rx-8, make sure to let the car warm up before you take off..even if you are in a hurry, let it run for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes if you can. In the winter make sure to let it run longer. Don’t shut the car off if you just started it, let it run for a couple of minutes and it will be fine. Use premium gas, shell, chevron, quick trip/premium only from any of these. use thicker oil than mazda recommends. The thinner 5w-20 oil is too thin for this engine. 5w-30 or higher. Your gas mileage will suffer a little but replacing an engine is more expensive should mazda not honor the 100k engine warranty. Do not use synthetic oil and get your car serviced PER THE GUIDELINES in the owner manual and you should be fine. Don’t skimp on maintence..it goes a long way!

  7. martin :

    Date: November 17, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

    I have a little concern my rx8 is producing some smoke looks like blackish only during start up and my oil stick when I pull it out hac a cappucino like residue in most of it and very little oil.I wonder if thats normal but instinct tells me that I need to flush the engine change the oil.Its also started taking longer to start the engine from cold.Can anyone help

  8. joe :

    Date: November 29, 2009 @ 3:58 pm

    the coffee colored froth on the dipstick is normal in colder weather as the metal dipstick is separate from the warmth of the motor and the oil and condensed water form the froth. Nothing to worry about. I think they may have come out with a plastic dipstick tube since. BTW the synthetic oil issue is a bunch if BS, it’s just that Mazda never did full synthetic testing on Sny oil, so they won’t condone it. The ‘it doesn’t burn like dino oil’ argument is not an issue. Ive been running penzoil platinum 10w30 or 5w30 for 40,000+ miles, no probs.

  9. David Jacques :

    Date: December 10, 2009 @ 6:12 pm

    My battery light came on and had it checked out and the battery was almost full and was told to charge it completely and also had the alternator checked out and it was good. I charged the battery full and light cam on again, then bought a new battery and light came on again. Now I do not know what to do. Seems like if it sits overnight the battery may be getting drained a little and if I drive it far enough the battery light will eventually go off. Help. Thanks

  10. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: December 10, 2009 @ 10:34 pm

    David, The battery light coming on in any type of car in my experience, is hardly ever the fault of a bad battery. Usually it’s a bad alternator. A good technician will check to make sure the belt is in good condition and not slipping – if the belt slips the battery light will come on. Also the technician should use a charging system tester to check the diode pattern, voltage and amperage output. The charging system could be working marginally (not high enough volts & amps) or the diode pattern could be bad which is an indication of the alternator failing. In rare cases it could be a faulty gauge, but in 99.9% of cases the gauge is providing a correct reading and it’s just the alternator on it’s way out.

  11. Bob :

    Date: December 12, 2009 @ 6:36 am

    My RX8 Starts up first time, when I take it for a drive, make sure it gets to optimum temp, once I shut down, it struggles to start, I have to crank it a couple of times to get it started and wait for the engine to cool down before it starts up again, any ideas? Its a nightmare when I wanna top up petrol and the car don’t start.

  12. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: December 12, 2009 @ 7:39 am

    Bob, I would suggest keeping the oil changed frequently, remember to keep check on the oil level – keeping it full. Also a new set of spark plugs. If problems still persist a PCM update may be needed. If after all of this the problem continues, the engine may have some mechanicle wear causing lower over-all compression.

  13. Chad :

    Date: December 15, 2009 @ 7:51 pm

    Dennis my 2004 rx8 is having problems starting after it has warmed up. I will drive it for a while stop for gas or something then it won’t start back up. I have to let it sit for a while then it starts finally. Any help would be great.
    -Thanks, Chad

  14. Chad :

    Date: December 16, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

    Update: Today it was almost 50 degrees out here, and the car started after being warmed with out a real problem. Could I need a battery with more Cold Cranking Amps?

    -Chad

  15. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: December 17, 2009 @ 7:37 am

    Chad, the colder weather may be helping to mask the warm start issue. Doesn’t sound like the battery is a problem since it started well in 50 degree weather, but you can have it load tested at a parts store or repair shop usually for free.

    When the weather warms back up, the problem may return and need to be addressed using some of the information in this article.

  16. Chad :

    Date: December 18, 2009 @ 6:45 pm

    Dennis,

    What I meant was that the car started better when it was 50 out. It has problems starting when its cold out. It has been as low as 7 degrees here and thats when I have a problem starting the car. It seems to start easier when it gets warmer outside. Does that make sense?

    -Thanks, Chad

  17. Phil Griffiths :

    Date: December 25, 2009 @ 8:36 am

    My starter failed the other day. on looking at it the spade connector was dirty. not surprising as it is situated under the engine bay 6″ from the road surface. Cleaned it up and its now proected with some vasiline.

  18. Nathan :

    Date: December 27, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

    I heard the starter on the 2004 models needs upgrading due to the weak power to turn the engine, my rx8 starts first time but dont start when you shut down and start second time does not start, have to wait about 10-15 mins for it to cool down before im going again, thats what the dealer tells me, anyone have any suggestions?

  19. Leo :

    Date: December 30, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

    My 2004 Rx8 does not want to start. I been reading that it is flooded.. common problem on all Rx8. How can I resolve this? Please help

  20. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: December 30, 2009 @ 2:04 pm

    Leo, if this article and the TSB cannot help – it may be time to call a tow truck.

  21. Steve :

    Date: December 30, 2009 @ 4:32 pm

    Hi Dennis! I am thinking about buying an RX8 and i have been reading the comments on flooded, hard starting and the TSB procedures, is this really that bad? If i followed the correct procedures, would i still get problems like this and is this a daily task?
    Thanks

  22. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: December 30, 2009 @ 6:33 pm

    Steve, any vehicle you purchase may have problems specific to the particular model. Buy what you like… and be prepared when problems arise. As far as a daily task – with this model it’s good to be mindful everyday that turning the engine off before it has fully reached operating temperature may mean it won’t re-start. A lot of people love these cars and are willing to live with some of the pitfalls.

  23. Ed Nicholson :

    Date: December 31, 2009 @ 3:56 am

    Dennis, really good advice you are providing here. Proud Mazda owner in the UK which I have been driving for 4 years. However, last two consecutive Christmases I’ve had to send the car back to the garage on a Tow truck! Car just doesn’t like to be left alone for a few days in cold weather! Rest of the year it performs well.

  24. Ricky :

    Date: January 18, 2010 @ 6:07 am

    Hi Dennis, I have just owned a RX8 for 10day and this problem has came up. I have start the car in the morning for about 3mins and then drive off on low speed and under 3000rpm for about 200meters to my friends but i did not turn off then engine for about 5mins! and then got into the ar to drove but when the car started moving the engine started to die and engine lights on and then the engine dies. After that the engine would not start! The engine will start only if i step on the accelerator and crank the ignition for about 5-10seconds, but it dies once i leave my foot off the accelerator. “Can you please tell me if my RX8 is flood? or what kind of problem does the RX8 possible of having please!? Cheers and thanks you!

  25. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: January 18, 2010 @ 7:25 am

    Ricky, Your vehicle sounds like a typical RX8 – this article applies to it. If plugs and a software update doesn’t help it could have low compression.

  26. JeffJ :

    Date: January 19, 2010 @ 8:48 am

    Dennis, thank you for all the advice. Symptomatically it sounds like I have an issue you’ve already addressed, yet I still can’t get my 2004 RX-8 to start. I just returned from a month-long vacation where the car sat in my garage. Although weather is cooler here right now, I live in Virginia so the garage never dropped below freezing.

    Last night the car was very slow to start (2-3 seconds), but did eventually catch, however it died about a second later. I haven’t been able to restart the engine since then (a day later). The last time I tried to start the engine the starter sounded like it was running slower, so I’m concerned that I’m killing my brand new battery (2 months old). This is a new engine with only about 15,000 miles (previous engine had poor compression so Mazda replaced it), a new alternator (1 year old), plugs are two years old, and the above mentioned new battery. Help?

  27. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: January 19, 2010 @ 9:22 am

    Jeff, Besides the Mazda TSB procedures (click here) –

    Techs that finally get one of these cars to start usually do the following.

    1. Use a battery charger and pactically burn up the starter. It proves to be less nerve racking when it’s NOT your car.
    2. Use plenty of starting fluid.
    3. If/when it starts REV it and don’t let it stall !

  28. JeffJ :

    Date: January 19, 2010 @ 9:51 am

    Great…why does that not sound promising that I’ll be able to do this on my own and still get to work this morning? And if I do, manage to do so without having more maintenance expenses down the road soon? I love my RX-8, but in the two years I’ve owned it I’ve replaced just about every significant system save for the steering (knock on wood).

    Thanks though!

  29. Milan :

    Date: February 14, 2010 @ 8:54 am

    Hi Dennis, My 04 rx8 didn’t have problems since last week. The same problem, when the engine is cold it starts right away, but when I shut down the engine and i want to start up again it won’t start. I have to leave it for a few minutes or to crank it several times with the acceleration pedal pushed and then will start normal. Could this problem may be if I have low oil level in the engine? I’ve checked it this morning.

  30. juan :

    Date: March 5, 2010 @ 5:13 am

    hey dennis i have a really big problem i bought an rx8 on an auction and its roled over just a little damaged the engine was untouch and i received it and tried to turn it on but it wont start i almost burned the starter. would you please help me what can be happening with the car thannks a lot.

  31. dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :

    Date: March 5, 2010 @ 8:00 am

    Hopefully the information in this auto repair blog can help. Don’t forget to see the TSB. If any further help is needed, you may want to ask a Mazda tech by using the car questions link at the top of this page.